The role of Private Equity and Venture Capital in driving forth the ESG agenda? | ESG Conference

Speaker 0:
Hello and welcome to this E s G Summit panel number four. The role of private equity and venture capital in advancing the E s G agenda. I'm very pleased to announce the speakers here with me today. We have Elena Negash, E s G manager at G e P. F. Paul Amara, investment manager at Schroders, and Saa Nakagawa, founder and partner of three Hours Impact, speaking on behalf of C FA Society of South Africa.

Speaker 0:
But, Paul, if I could start with you how well equipped is private equity to deal with this whole E s G agenda.

Speaker 1:
Hi, Rory. Yeah, thanks very much. So just to make it as a quick intro to myself, I'm I'm actually the head of sustainability and impact at, uh, private equity. So we we feel as if there's a huge opportunity to be investing into sustainability and into impact and taking into account e S g um uh, details considerations. When we're investing,

Speaker 1:
we think that private equity clearly has significant dry powder, so it has the ability to be investing. We, um, typically take majority positions or we're taking controlling interests in businesses. So we're very close to them. We're very active to the with the businesses that we're we're working with and investing into, and

Speaker 1:
we're very conscious of the drive towards sustainability and impact going forward. So it's a critical part of of investing, and it will be not just for the short term, but for the medium and longer term as well. So, within private equity as a whole, um, is very well positioned to be supporting this agenda going forward.

Speaker 0:
Um, Elena, welcome to the programme. You're coming at this from a slightly different angle. Could you give us a bit of background about you and and how you think that E. S G positions itself, especially within private equity?

Speaker 0:
Thank you very much for your question, Rory. Um, I run, um, the E s G, uh, programme at the Government Employees Pension Fund. I am the e s G manager. And at at our fund, what we do is look at E S G matters across all asset classes, um, specific to private equity. Some of the things that we certainly do look at is, um,

Speaker 0:
keeping us certain agendas or themes. Uh, within the the investment environment. Uh, we try to, um, focus around you know, gender equality, Um, transformation, Uh, climate change, water, et cetera. So there are specific themes that we try and drive.

Speaker 0:
Um, and that is how we, you know, kind of follow through the the sustainability aspect at the government employees pension fund.

Speaker 0:
Hm. And so welcome to you. Last but not least, um you come at this from an impact point of view, and you can't have e s g without impact.

Speaker 0:
Absolutely. Thank you, Rory. So I run Three Arrows Impact partner, which is a consulting firm. We focus on impact investing, social innovation and sustainability. And I think that private equity and venture capital really plays a really important role in the field of investing for E S G and impact investing. Uh, as Paul mentioned, um, longer time horizon, Uh, will,

Speaker 0:
uh, helped to make a significant difference. Although one can argue 7 10 years is not sufficient to address climate change. But you can also apply active engagement through taking a significant stake in the company, sitting on the board, influencing to reduce, um, unsustainable practises or introducing more effective governance practises or improving working conditions

Speaker 0:
through the I, uh, policies, et cetera. So I think that, um, private equity and venture capital across emerging markets and developed countries have a significant role to play. And Paul, I want to bring you back in here and about the dry powder comment you mentioned earlier. Where have you seen this being deployed across, Say, different markets, different industries. What have you seen?

Speaker 1:
Yeah, it's relatively broad based. To be perfectly honest, I think there's, um there's a huge drive and awareness of of private equity and the value that private equity can bring more broadly outside of E S G. Um, and so we're just seeing an increased appetite to be investing into the asset class as a whole, if you like across private equity and venture capital as well.

Speaker 1:
Um, but within the the E s g sustainability and impact space, you know, we see lots of opportunities coming through from European businesses that that feel like they're leading the wave a little bit in terms of the the sort of the measurement of data, the collection of data and the awareness around E. S G. Um, but in saying that in in the funds that we've raised and launched so far,

Speaker 1:
we've made investments across Europe across the US and and Asia as well. So we have a very broad spectrum of opportunities. Um, globally. And we're seeing interest from investors from from all around the world as well.

Speaker 0:
And but from a pensions point of view, what kind of issues? What kind of points have they raised when they've spoken to you about this quite broad area of investing?

Speaker 0:
Well, certainly from our perspective, Um, given that, you know, we do manage about 2.3 trillion rand. Um, you know, our our focus is really around looking for the long term. Um, we're in it for the long hold, simply because the nature of our business is to pay the pension promise. Um, and we are also defined benefit fund. So, you know, um, the sustainability of our returns is is really the crux of it all.

Speaker 0:
Um, And so, you know, we tend to prioritise areas that, um,

Speaker 0:
have a significant impact on the fund. And, of course, also on the broader society. Just given, you know, the fact that we are, um, the largest investor in South Africa. And we've got, um, we are exposed to significant systemic risks um, as the fund is largely, uh, invested in South Africa.

Speaker 0:
So you know it. It's almost like the the the Our investment is enmeshed in how South Africa or the or the, you know, the the the country performs in itself. Um, and so that we don't really We can't divorce ourselves from the the the the structural issues that are prevalent in in South Africa.

Speaker 0:
And so we have to ensure that, you know, impact is driven through our investment. Um, that the way that we engage companies is also driving impact. And also, of course, the way that we we vote as well. And the stakes that we take, um, in in these companies as, um a a did did mention. But of course, as I I did mention earlier. You know, this is kind of across all asset classes, um, so that, you know, that is really how we view sustainability.

Speaker 0:
Mm. And so I want to bring you in here how important it is that point in taking a real active ownership in these companies and really engaging with them on the ground.

Speaker 0:
Yes, I think it's absolutely critical. And from that perspective, I would say, because I I've been, um, working in in Africa, South Africa and Kenya and across the continent that e s G has significant. Um,

Speaker 0:
it's a It's a significant, um, the important investment strategy on on the African continent and across the emerging market. Um, it really helps to drive, um, impact as, uh, my peers are saying and I think that I think what's interesting in in in the last few years is that the whole positioning of E. S G has moved away from

Speaker 0:
sort of a risk mitigation approach to, as my peers are saying, more driving impact, which is also critical in the context of emerging markets, including places like South Africa and others. Hm. Uh, Paul bringing bring to light the sort of ownership and governance here. Do you think that private companies are better equipped because they can act a bit quicker? They can be a bit nimbler, as opposed to, say, public ownership.

Speaker 1:
Yeah. I mean, I don't want to dismiss the the opportunity within public ownership as well, but I think private equity, by the nature of its its role, um, that that level of governance those director positions board positions um, and the agility for the businesses that we're backing to be able to adopt to some of these changes to some of these different approaches From an E s g perspective, I think all that flexibility and that, um, that ability to move quickly,

Speaker 1:
um lends itself to more change coming through more quickly, obviously from a private private equity basis. But I think at the same time, you know, public markets are are are also having and should also have a a very positive effect from an E s g perspective. But yeah, I think private equity just lends itself a little bit more, uh, kindly to it

Speaker 0:
and is because they have a slightly longer time horizon, you know, so you can own a company for 56 years, as opposed to those quarterly catch ups that public companies need to know about. It is

Speaker 1:
a critical part of of the thinking and the philosophy, really, because we're investing for that 5 to 7 plus years, uh, we can we can be investing into businesses and, uh, deploying capital. But it it may that investment may actually set profit backwards for the first year or so as you're really trying to scale up the capabilities, the reporting ability, professionalising, the organisations.

Speaker 1:
Um, but being able to have that long term lens allows you to make those investments over over the initial few years to see the longer term benefit coming through. Um, it's always a little bit more tricky, um, from a public markets perspective, because everyone's so focused on the quarterly numbers that come through whereas private has that longer term vision and horizon.

Speaker 0:
And you must have had quite a lot of decarbonisation, uh, conversations Have these conversations really gone because it's a a difficult subject to breach, especially when a lot of jobs are

Speaker 0:
are on the line. But have the conversations maybe changed with private equity and venture capital?

Speaker 0:
Well, certainly, from our perspective, I think, given the unique, um, uh, issues that South Africa has, you know, as you did correctly, mention thousands of jobs. Um, South Africa is completely reliant on coal energy, you know, But we we try to or we do, um, drive impact by, you know, investing in renewables. Um, we've got, uh, solar. We've got, um, uh, wind farms as well.

Speaker 0:
And then also, um, in terms of across, you know, agri sectors. Some of the conversations that we do have is, you know, how is climate change impacting? How can we mitigate that? Um, you know, what is your water usage like, How do we you know, try and extract as much value as we can, given the finite resources that we have, Um, South Africa is a a water scarce region.

Speaker 0:
Um, and we have seen, you know, extreme weather impacts, and we are very, very aware, um, on on how climate change would impact, um, and and the type of conversations that we also have within, um, you know, the listed space is also, you know, how do we apply Just transition? Um, we do support just transition, and so does South Africa.

Speaker 0:
Um, and, you know, there's certain commitments that that, uh, we are starting to look at. And how does that impact your portfolio? You know, these are the types of conversations that asset owners need to have with their invests as well. Um, because, as I did mention earlier, you know, we cannot divorce ourselves from, um these structural issues that that we have.

Speaker 0:
Mm. So are you working in the region. Two of these similar conversations that you've been having?

Speaker 0:
Yeah, absolutely. I think that as Vilena said previously,

Speaker 0:
the the concept of decarbonization or the transition to renewable energy cannot be had without the social consideration. So the concept of just transition is absolutely critical. And this, I think the intersection of climate or, um, climate, um, and and social issues is also a a very important thematic area that E S G investors should very much consider because we can't,

Speaker 0:
you know, we can't. We have to really balance environmental sustainability, uh, with social economic disparities that already exist in many of these markets. So yeah, so the these, uh, this, uh, just transition consideration is critical from that perspective. And so on a previous panel, we had a comment that, um, e s G has maybe been accused of putting the planet before. People. Do you think

Speaker 0:
that kind of rhetoric was useful at the start? But now we've moved into a new kind of phase where that's that's not really appropriate anymore.

Speaker 0:
Yeah, I think that's an interesting question. Um, that the S in E. S g perhaps has been taken for granted in the past perhaps we focus a lot more on on climate change from a carbon perspective.

Speaker 0:
But I think the pandemic in a way helped us to rethink about the social aspects because I think not just investors, but all of us realise that there there has been more acute impact on the most vulnerable populations. This this, um,

Speaker 0:
pandemic and it it really exacerbated the existing levels of inequality, whether it's racial, gender, socioeconomic or otherwise. So I think that many companies in developed markets as well as developing markets are focusing on sort of, you know, physical and mental health of of employees.

Speaker 0:
And companies are becoming more concerned about employee Well, well-being. So I think there there is increased focus on the S within E S g, um, compared to the past. But whether that continues, uh, after everybody forgets about the pandemic, I think it's, uh it's an interesting question to ask.

Speaker 0:
And Paul, you've worked in this space for quite a while. Have you seen the analysis of E. S G change over the last say 5, 10 years? Because we had green investing as a big concept, and then it morphed into, say, more of an E S G. What's the state of it now?

Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think it's developed significantly over the last 5, 10 years. I think we started very much with that sort of a risk focus as as you picked up on previously, Um, but I think the the whole framework and approach is evolving and we'll continue to evolve. It's made massive strides over the last five years, and we'll continue to do so over the over the next five. I think if we face some challenges at the moment, it's the, um, variety of different approaches that are being taken, different protocols that are being introduced, different methods of measuring data, different

Speaker 1:
the elements of data that are being collected and and then trying to be able to bring all this together so that we can actually make some sense of it. I think is is a bit of a challenge and I think over the next five years, well, hopefully we can. We can harmonise the data that's coming through. We can get consistent measurement coming through so that we can

Speaker 1:
on an aggregated basis, we can have a better picture, a more transparent picture of of the genuine impacts that we are having by by making some of these investments. So I think we've We've come a huge way already, but I think there's there's still work to be done here. And we can see with the evolving regulations that, you know, this is a bit of an evolving process. It a slightly iterative process. Um, but what I'm what I'm encouraged by is the amount of support and the amount amount of involvement that multiple parties are having here

Speaker 1:
with with one view in mind. And that is to drive this agenda forward and improve it, uh, into the future. So still still work to be done. But huge progress over the last few years.

Speaker 0:
Uh, and so when we spoke prior to this, you talked about climate measurement. How How is that done from your side? What kind of metrics do you use and and what do you look at in particular?

Speaker 0:
Yes, I think, as Paul just discussed now the whole measurement issue, particularly in the private equity space, Um, your venture capital space and also the listed equity space or general impact investing space. It is a big issue. I think there is that the two. There may be broadly two issues. The first one is sort of the the E s G disclosure issue, and the second one is sort of the measurement of the actual impact issue.

Speaker 0:
Um,

Speaker 0:
I had the privilege of working on the E s G working group for the C FA Society, South Africa, back in 2020. And this was in relation to providing feedback on the C FA Institute's E S G disclosure disclosure standards for investment products. So there's obviously a lot of concern about green washing or E S G washing impact washing.

Speaker 0:
So when when a client is trying to purchase a, um, an investor is trying to purchase a product, and it says it's e S G. But do we really know what that means in, you know, in a consistent manner? And the second question is, I think Paul also alluded to this. Look, there, there. There are many standards and, um, indicators that are not so consistent that it's very hard to,

Speaker 0:
um, properly understand and measure measure impact. But I think from that perspective, I mean, there is a lot of pressure from regulators in the EU and in the United States. But I think in the unlisted private equity and, um,

Speaker 0:
venture capital space, I personally believe that it's their uniquely positioned to lead the measurement space by helping to standardise by helping to develop help the companies the investing companies develop or or adopt,

Speaker 0:
Um, the metrics that are more consistent. So I believe that, uh, for the private equity and venture capital space, there is opportunity to to really spearhead the the measurement space

Speaker 0:
and be from your perspective, from from pensions. How important is disclosures and real good terminology for for investors and for trustees as well.

Speaker 0:
Well, certainly very, very important. Um, I think, though, you know, as as trustees, um, there is increased importance of, um,

Speaker 0:
of intrusive monitoring and oversight. Um, simply because of you know, your your fiduciary responsibilities. Um, And in doing so, you have to actually have the the conversation in terms of, you know, how exactly are you driving impact, you know, Are you aligned to the S, the S. D. G s? How exactly are you, um, aligning to that, You know, what are some of the standards that you you say that you are, Um uh uh,

Speaker 0:
aligning yourself to. And I think if there is that level of comfort that you personally as a trustee do believe in, then you know, I I think then certainly there there would be space to invest in that instrument. Um, I think a lot of times, um,

Speaker 0:
you know, trustees are not as fortunate, um, as as the government employees pension fund. Simply because of our sheer size and the resources that are available to us. Um, other pension funds are not so lucky, you know, And you may find that a trustee is a trustee, um, 20% of the time and has another full time job, you know, Um, So I think that is where, um, the danger lies in. And you know too much. Um

Speaker 0:
uh, uh, Emphasis or or trust is placed on, like, asset consultants. Um, you know, and therefore you start not really applying your fiduciary responsibilities. I think that in in South Africa, we do have strong laws as well. Um, and I think you know, there is a level of protection that is applied to pension funds. Um, but

Speaker 0:
you know the disclosure level very important, but we have to also be keeping an a a close eye on just the the green washing that is out there. I I think it's a really important point, but do you think it's difficult depending on which sector you're in, Certain industries lend themselves to certain types of types of practise. And Plus, if you're a smaller business, perhaps you can't commit the kind of resources to disclose the accurate information or e S g. It becomes a bit more challenging then. No,

Speaker 0:
absolutely. And I think that is the role that private equity can can come in in that, um,

Speaker 0:
you know, as as an investor, you can assist in guiding, Um, what sort of standards? What sort of, um uh, issues that you think are important to that particular ee and therefore you can start applying, you know, corrective action plans. Um, and in that way, of course, you know, you start to see E s G improvements as well as the the investment returns that

Speaker 0:
you require as the investors. So certainly I think that within the private equity space, there is a lot more, um uh, influence that an investor can have and also the, um just the the, you know, the way that the company operates itself in in its communities and its operating environment can apply. Um, a lot more positive impact.

Speaker 0:
Uh, Paul, I wanted to talk about returns. I think a lot of people, maybe over the last few years, would have viewed e S G as a nice to have and when things were good and we could make some decent returns. And perhaps they thought maybe in an environment like this, they couldn't. But is that changing now? They're now seeing private E g as sort of what place they could make. Quite decent returns.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, I'm not sure if it's if it's quite changed as much as I'd like it to. I mean, the experience that we've had and we've deployed over $1.5 billion into um e s G sustainable investments. So we we've got a fairly robust track record over the last 10 years of of deploying into this space. But I think historically there's been this view that by by focusing on E S G or sustainable impact, you you have to give up returns, and

Speaker 1:
that's clearly not true. It's not right from the experience that we've seen. It's not right from the the track records that we're seeing in in good impact managers and and other managers that are focusing on these types of areas within their investment profiles. So I think that the key to to maybe make sure the audience or new investors looking at this space are aware of is that actually you can generate strong private equity returns, Um, while investing in an E S G or an impact,

Speaker 1:
um basis as well. And actually there's the opportunity to enhance the returns beyond standard product returns because these businesses, they all have to adjust. They all have to acknowledge where the world is going and that there's a a much increased focus on E. S. G and sustainability going forward. If you're not making those changes, then you're going to go backwards. In terms of valuation. You're not going to be the types of businesses that people want to buy from, or people want to invest into going forward.

Speaker 1:
So there's an opportunity here to be making the right decisions, um, investing time and effort and resource into E s G practises, good practises and positive impact and all the way through. That's actually enhancing the value of the business that you're investing into as well. So hence why we are seeing have seen very strong returns by investing into this space and and expect that to continue over the next 10, 15 years and and well beyond. Because this this has to be the move that we all we all make going forward.

Speaker 0:
And so a building on that Do you think it's an education piece of, you know, teaching advisors, teaching investors that private and E S G. This is a place you can make pretty substantial returns.

Speaker 0:
Thank you, Ari. I think that educate investor education is, um, critical. And it would help to to, um,

Speaker 0:
drive more, um, assets into E S G strategy. Perhaps, but I don't think anything beats the actual track record. So it's the likes of Paul Belia and other investors that are actually placing capital and demonstrating that it does actually, um, make returns and at the same time, um, help to,

Speaker 0:
uh, deliver impact or reduce, um, risk. I think that that is really critical. And I think in the context of, um, Africa, for example, there is a lot of perceived risk in, in addition to actual risk in investing in,

Speaker 0:
um, venture capital private equity type of assets. So again here, it's important for the investors that are e s g oriented, impact oriented to really deploy more capital for companies that are making a difference and really reporting back to to the wider public to to really showcase their their impact and and the financial return that they deliver.

Speaker 0:
Uh, so a playing devil's advocate slightly for a second. If I was to say I was an investor and I said that I think fossil fuel companies are going to have a really good 10 years and then probably they're not going to be around anymore. So in 10 years, maybe I'll switch to a more E S G friendly portfolio. What would you say to them to think that? Are they thinking too short term? Are they not really taking into account the the decarbonisation argument? What would you say?

Speaker 0:
Yeah, um, I hope that we don't have those kinds of questions anymore that I think we we have all bought into the the critically important issues related to climate mitigation and adaptation that even if he started actively today, we're probably not going to make our science based target. So waiting for another 10 years is definitely not going to get us anywhere.

Speaker 0:
And you know, you the planet may not exist to deploy in other asset classes. Uh, if you employ this kind of, um, very fossil fuel focused strategy in the Nike So hopefully many asset owners and and and, um can really embrace and and pre put pressure on on the fund managers to say that, you know, we're really interested in sustainable investment solutions for the future.

Speaker 0:
Hm. Paul coming back to you slightly. How is the rising coveting? So LP is making a direct investment in a portfolio company sort of change the narrative. It's a real nice dual ownership that I guess has shared responsibility too.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, it it's a strong part of our strategy. Um, we we have made plenty of covets in in the past, and we'll continue to do so going forward. And we actually think there's a There's a real opportunity here as well to be investing alongside GPS. That may not have that that same focus on E. S G initially, but for us to be coming in alongside them and then driving that agenda forward. Um, we think is just an extra lever to push push the agenda into the future.

Speaker 1:
We find that the companies that we're investing into are always very keen to listen. I think they recognise the value that can be brought by a a more positive e s g, um, thought process or thesis within the business. And so, actually, the more people around the table that you have that are driving that as a priority, the better the ultimate and end goal will be. Um So So we think Coves absolutely is a strategy that will be here to stay, um, and actually enhances the the opportunity set within E. S G as well.

Speaker 0:
Hm. Bena Does that ring true for you as well? Sort of another. Another lever in which to push the E s g agenda. Um, we certainly would invest with companies that have, um, the same investment philosophy. However, I think it's also important to to realise that, you know, whilst we are transitioning into, you know, a more sustainable financial environment. Um, there would be transition risks involved,

Speaker 0:
Um, certainly for the GP f. Um, although we only invest in companies where, you know, we are strategically aligned, You know, that conversation is there, and you know it. It goes back to you know, what sort of, um, corrective action plans do you have in place? And are we seeing that e s g improvement? And if you do not meet those, you know, we would certainly apply penalties. And, um, I don't think that,

Speaker 0:
you know, if you are just to go back to your example of the you know, you feel you may feel that coal will have the next a great, uh, 10 year run, you know? But we will be having that conversation of how are you transitioning? Um, and I think that is very important. Especially when you're applying, you know, the just transition. Um uh, agenda.

Speaker 0:
And so if someone was watching this and they really had to get some clear, what are the real headwinds that private equity is gonna face if they don't start to adopt this year? If they quite slow off the mark, what do you think the sort of key ones are there?

Speaker 0:
Yeah. Perhaps I can speak about gender um, because that's something I I work on in my professional life, and it's something that I feel quite passionate about. So, gender lens investing is an It's an investment strategy that is used to promote gender equity so you can invest in. It's not. It's beyond ownership. So it's ownership, leadership, employment consumption. And I think that there are,

Speaker 0:
um, a lot of studies that, um, have come come out in the past, um, to really speak about the benefits of having a more gender diversified, um, environment. So one of which is, let's say, uh McKinsey Global Institute, uh, reported that advancing women's equity can add as much as 11% annually to GDP globally, Uh, by 2025. So

Speaker 0:
I think the biggest risk, in a way, is that if you are a company and you want to be competitive, you want to stay relevant to your customers. You know you have to embrace E S G, including, um, social considerations such as gender. Otherwise, you are going to be left behind. You know consumers and have a have a choice they don't have to purchase from a company. That is, that is not embracing.

Speaker 0:
Um gender equity or sustainability. So I think over time that pressure is gonna grow. And that's a huge risk for companies. And you're there on the ground in Nairobi. Have any geographical regions really set the pace when it comes to gender equality in in sort of boardrooms and and businesses?

Speaker 0:
Um, that's an excellent question. I think that every country has its own unique, uh, challenges. Um, so I spent the past 12 years in in South Africa about a year and a half ago, I moved to

Speaker 0:
Nairobi. I I don't know if I can say perhaps Nordic countries historically have always been at the top of the the gender ranking. And unfortunately, I think, uh, places like where I come from originally, Japan has been quite low in the gender ranking.

Speaker 0:
Um, so I think that you have to also look at, you know, cultural aspects as well as you know what what the companies and the government are really trying to do in terms of introducing policies and frameworks to advance, uh, gender equity in in in ways that suit, um, each, um, jurisdiction,

Speaker 0:
Paul, bringing it back to sort of venture capital. I'm conscious that we haven't done too much on V. C. We spent a lot on private equity. Is it difficult to assess the characteristics of of companies in a V. C? It's a bit more say opaque than a private equity portfolio.

Speaker 1:
Yeah, I think there are definitely a few more challenges. Um, uh, I think it's still a very critical part of the investment process. And of the, uh, the the development of the company. Um but I think sometimes when you're at that slightly earlier stage in the life cycle of the business, you're focused on maybe some other higher priority priorities in your in your mind.

Speaker 1:
But I think that more and more V CS, um, are bringing awareness and driving the agenda around E S G as well. So, yes, you might be looking about trying to drive your sales and trying to actually get yourself to profitability. Maybe at some point in the near future.

Speaker 1:
Um, but I think E s G is becoming a factor that is considered a across the board now. So it's not something that you can hide from. Ultimately, you're going to be looking for further rounds in the future. You're going to be looking for other investors to be coming in as you mature as a business. So it's important that at the earliest stages you start to begin to think about this as as how you can involve it within the business.

Speaker 1:
So, yeah, I think we we definitely see a few more challenges just maybe in terms of again that data collection, the sort of the robustness of the E S G model within earlier stage businesses. But it's still there, still a factor and still something that needs to be considered.

Speaker 0:
These early stage businesses, they're surely ripe for the next opportunity. The next big thing that's gonna drive forward this agenda,

Speaker 1:
I think, is a really, I think, is a really key point. It's really critical, I mean, by investing into some of these innovators disruptors some of the really critical technologies of the future that are going to solve some of the the issues that we're currently facing. You know, they're they're early stage businesses at this at this point in the whole cycle, so you've got to get behind them more capital behind them, um, and and accept that these could be real game changers for the future.

Speaker 0:
Uh, so I'm I'm conscious of time here for this panel. But if there was just one thought sort of thought that you wanted to leave someone with who was watching this, what would it be? Um, so the role of venture capital in the context of Africa is significant. Um, there are companies in Africa that are solving tangible societal and environmental challenges, and sometimes they are providing business models, almost leapfrogging what

Speaker 0:
exist in developed markets by providing solutions that we haven't seen exciting solutions. So I think that more investors should be allocating capital in venture capital in, uh, Africa to really help them grow their societal and environmental impact.

Speaker 0:
And Paul, the same question to you a final thought for those watching the opportunities in private ett and V c too big to ignore.

Speaker 1:
I think we're in a really exciting period. I think we're at a really exciting stage of, um of the opportunity to be investing into E S G across V. C and PE. Um, I think frameworks are all coming together. There's a consensus building around this area has been something that can really drive significant and enhanced returns uh, over the next 5, 10 years and beyond. Um, so I'm I'm very excited. I I hope people realise and recognise that actually,

Speaker 1:
impact positive e s g can can deliver enhanced returns. So that's one of the key messages I wanna make sure is is a take away from today.

Speaker 0:
Um, but any lastly to you? What's the sort of takeaway that you want to leave the the viewers with for this panel,

Speaker 0:
I think. Certainly aligning, um, your portfolio or your strategy around the sustainable development goals. I think it certainly is a way of highlighting the the opportunities that are there. Um, simply because there are huge, um, structural issues and environmental social governance issues out there. But that does also create a lot of opportunities for investors.

Speaker 0:
Well, thank you to the speakers. Thank to Bolena to Paul and to SAA. And all the panels from this summit will be available to rewatch at your leisure. But thank you very much for watching, and we'll see you again soon.